As an originial contributer to the World's Largest Steppers Contest, Graelin discusses the history of the World's Largest Steppers Contest, Corporate Sponsorship, the Freestyle Category, and much more!

T. Pratt (TP): How did the World's Largest Steppers Contest (WLSC) begin?

Graelin Woodley (GW): The genesis of the WLSC was the Thursday night set at the ChicRic House on Michigan Ave. This was one of the hottest sets going and became the most coveted semi-final venue. Kenny B. Thompson and Reggie Miles would spin and would have the joint rocking. Rick would have a contest with a $100 cash prize. At the time Rodney Burke was a Geo Market Manager for Anheuser-Busch (A-B) and was looking for a promotional vehicle to ask the ethnic community to buy Budweiser. At one of these contests both Rodney Burke and myself were in attendance and he expressed his appreciation for the artistry involved and in the next breath stated that he might be able to do something to give it more exposure.

TP: Who came up with the name and the concept?

GW: Rodney Burke with assistance from Merry Green.

TP: Who brought the investors to the table?

GW: There was no need for investors to be brought to the table. Rodney committed $300,000 of his marketing budget to the project. The largest dollar commitment to an ethnic promotion before or since by a corporate entity that was community based. He literally used his job as collateral for if it hadn't worked he would have been fired. The other sponsor associations that later were attached to the program were drawn by the program’s success. Chernin's, a major airline, and a major furrier among others aggressively pursued associations in a trade for mention process.

TP: How did Merry Green get involved?

GW: Merry Green was the promotions director at WVAZ where A-B had a significant advertising account. She was initially assigned to bring her considerable organizational and promotional skills to the account by her employers and later after establishing her independent promotions company continued her association with the event as promoter.

TP: What year did the first World's Largest take place? Some day '89, others say '90, then I also hear '91.

GW: The first contest was held in 1990 at the Westin Hotel on N. Michigan Ave & Walton. The lines stretched for several blocks out of the main entrance and several hundred were denied admittance due to fire code concerns.

TP: What did you hope to accomplish by having a World's Largest Steppers contest?

GW: First and foremost, the desire was to showcase a part of Chicago's black entertainment history in a first class way analogous to what's seen in mainstream ballroom competitions, complete with the style, grace, and elegance that is expected of such competitions but with a uniquely Black Chicago flavor. Secondly, we wanted to develop a grass roots ethnic promotion that would reach out to black vendors, charities, as well as the general community. It is important to note here that no profit was derived from the contest. In fact, total proceeds from the contest would not have covered the cost of the dance floor. All proceeds from the door were donated to local black charities like the Domico Youth Services and Women of Domestic Violence. Thirdly, we wanted to respectfully ask the community to support A-B products. Initially, Bud and Bud Light and later new products like Michelob Golden Draft.

TP: Did you all accomplish the goal of getting the community to support A-B products?

GW: Yes and No. There was some residual impact from the Stepper's program but the bulk of the sales increases were due to a dedicated and hard working sales force led by Terry Bell at Hometown Distributing where I was a Territory Manager. We made some minor inroads but nothing sustainable. It was amazing to me the number of people who would approach me about event sponsorship with a Miller or Heineken in their hand. Take a visual survey the next time you're out and see how many steppers are drinking an A-B product.

TP: Are you happy with where the World's Largest is now?

GW: I'll say this … Pete Frazier and the Majestic Gents deserve a tremendous amount of credit for picking up where we left off and keeping the contest alive. But without the resources and leverage of a fortune 50 company [top 50 of the top fortune 500 companies] like A-B it would be unfair for me to be critical of the current event.

TP: What would you like to see improved?

GW: I'd like to see the contest reacquire a major sponsor and become a national contest.

TP: How would you incorporate all of the new cities that have picked up Steppin' into a National Contest?

GW: I have a plan that I'm currently pitching to several fortune 50 corporations ... ‘nough said!

TP: Sam Chatman was the initial DJ of the contest correct?

GW: Yes the legendary Sam Chatman our homeboy from the Lou was the initial DJ.

TP: Now, I've heard that Merry Green created the "freestyle" category because steppers were complaining that they didn't want to compete against the faster more flamboyant style of dance. Is this true?

GW: Merry Green did not create the freestyle category. At the first contest there was a tie between Dimples and Marzette and Alfred and his partner whose name escapes me [Jannice]. Dimples and Marzette danced in the traditional style and Alfred incorporated his modern dance training into his freestyle steppin’. The traditional steppin community was outraged saying that wasn't 'real' steppin’. Rodney called a meeting several weeks after the contest of some of who we considered the significant and representative voices on both sides of the issue. Let me also note that all who were invited did not attend. Out of that meeting came the decision to incorporate a second category of steppin’ [called] ‘freestyle’ into the contest. Out of that meeting also came other decisions that were incorporated into the contest. It was, after all, a community based promotion and we strongly believed the stepper's community collectively should have some ownership in the process. The determination of the five categories on which the dancers were to be judged as well as the elimination of an all celebrity judging panel was arrived at during those meetings among other things.

TP: So are you saying that members of the freestyle community didn't come to the meeting to represent their side?

GW: There were some freestyle members there. As I recall, it was probably pretty evenly divided. But after the fact there were complaints that voices had not been heard.

TP: For those that did come, were they okay with the new name. I ask because this is still a source of contention for many from that era and that genre of dancing?

GW: At the end of the meeting there was a general sense of agreement on most issues. I'm reluctant to give the impression that there was total harmony. There was a lot of passion on both sides. There were compromises on both sides. I don't recall any major problem with the term "freestyle".

TP: Many in that era feel that the decision to create that category actually killed that style of dancing? They feel that when props were allowed, it turned into a clown show. What is your take on that?

GW: It’s all a matter of perspective. Some were corny, some were very creative. But one thing is sure, freestyle arguably became the most entertaining and exciting part of the contest and featured some of the best pure dancing and some of the most creative and innovative performances to date. I see a lot of freestyle influence in the new generation of stepper’s energy and style of dance.

TP: There is also a debate going on currently about which style of dance was original. In 1990, when the WLSC started, are you saying there were two distinct styles of Steppin' ... one fast and one smooth?

GW: That's a tricky one. The style of steppin’ that I was most frequently exposed to and on which the contest was originally formulated was the smoother style. Sometimes it depended on which side of town you were on and what set you were at. But I will defer to others like Brother Ya hir, who have a longer deeper history in the game than I.

TP: From conversations that I've had with older businessmen in the Steppin' arena, they've told me that Budweiser pulled out as a sponsor because of the negativity generated by a number of the contestants. In other words, they had people from the "hood" trying to negotiate with corporate execs from Budweiser. Is there any truth to this?

GW: Not true! It really came down to a change in philosophy that was the result of a change of personnel. As a result of the success of the program, Rodney Burke was promoted and transferred to another division of the company. The person who replaced Burke had his own promotional agenda that did not include steppers and a year later I left Budweiser and there was no one left to fight for the program. And without strong advocates for the program within the sponsor organization and without sales numbers to justify continuation of the program, it was shelved.

TP: What is your most significant contest memory?

GW: There are many but what I enjoyed most were the Stepper's Cruises. It was first class in every way. A week before the finals of the contest the 50 semi-final winning couples and some very special guests went on a Stepper’s Cruise on the Spirit of Chicago. On that night we made all 50 couples feel like they had won. On those nights we got nothing but love and appreciation. The excitement of the day of the finals and the scene at the hotel the entire evening leading up to the event was palpable. The clothes, hair, cars, jewelry, and even celebrity, made me feel like I was at Ali / Frazier I. The absolute joy the winners expressed.

Then there were the semi finals, where the setting was much more intimate and the dancing intense, were off the hook. If some of the semi contestants could have transferred those performances to the finals they would have walked away champions. Sorry couldn’t choose one.

TP: Was there any stepper that you loved to watch compete in the 90's?

GW: John and Evaughn Muldrew, Kim and Steve Alexander, Claudell Jackson and whoever he danced with, Toi Salter and Keith Hubbard, Pete Frazier and Darlinda Russell (in the semis), Cowboy Greg [Adrow] and Cynthia Shanks, Casper and his sister, and some others who’s names escape me, were some of my favorites in the contest.

TP: What do you see as a major difference between the steppers of this generation and the steppers from the early 90's?

GW: We’re all products of the influences of times we grow and learn in and I think that’s very much reflected in this generational gap. Steppin’ is music driven and if you look at the difference in the music of this generation and the music of the steppers of the early 90’s the distinctions are evident. The 90’s were Frankie Beverly & Maze and The Whispers with some Pat Metheny on the side. This generation is more Rap and Hip Hop. Those influences manifest themselves in how the two sides deal with issues like respecting floor space, style of dress, common courtesies (home training), and creativity. The steppers of the 90’s, by and large learned to dance at the feet of their parents or other relatives or like I did. I learned with the assistance of a group of kind hearted women on the set who were patient and gentle with me and taught me the nuance of the dance and how to handle a woman while dancing.

The other part of my education came from just watching some brothers who could throw down, most of whom never competed in a contest or took a lesson (Ice Ray, Calvin Barnes), stealing bits and pieces and making my own style out of that dancing gumbo. This generation is the generation of the class and you can often identify the class by the dancer. I have heard the drums of the generational wars and it’s disturbing. We do a great disservice to each side when we do not show proper respect and assign appropriate value to the each others perspective and interpretation of the art.

TP: What happened to all of the early contest footage?

GW: I have a fair amount of footage but it’s not complete. Burke also has some and I’m sure there are other’s who were contracted to record the contests that are in possession of footage.

TP: Have I left out anything that you feel the steppers should know?

GW: A little about me and my role. I worked for Budweiser from 1991 thru 1997. My role in the execution of the WLSC was as a sort of project coordinator. As a territory manager for Budweiser, my responsibilities for the contest included distribution of point of sale (banners, flyers, contest applications) into more than 800 retail accounts both on and off premise. [I was also] responsible for merchandising semi final venues with sponsor Point of Sale and insuring A-B product availability. [I was] responsible for judge selection for semi-finals and finals. As a stepper for over ten years prior to WLSC, I acted as a close adviser to Burke and a liaison between the steppers community, radio station, and effected wholesalers . Since my first introduction to steppin (then boppin’) in the mid seventies on the campus of Eastern Illinois University, I’ve loved the dance. My history in the stepper’s community in Chicago began in the mid eighties. I have a deep burning love and passion for my people, our history, and culture. I did not participate in this interview to inflate my stature … the success of the program was its own reward. I have rarely discussed my role [and] never sought to profit from my experience. I just wanted the record to be clear, and have the battles that were being fought in the corporate boardrooms on behalf of steppers by two black men who valued and believed in the Steppers community acknowledged. We took a lot of grief, were the victims of scurrilous rumors (fixes and favoritism) and risked our livelihood for people we believed in. Having said that, I’m quite proud of what we were able to accomplish.

TP: Considering all that you all risked to take this dance to the next level, does it ever bother you that steppers seem so ungrateful, and instead of congratulating you and saying ‘Job Well Done’ they complain and create conspiracy theories. Personally, I would have a hard risking my job and livelihood over steppin' considering some of the negativity that the contests seem to generate these days.

GW: I'd be dishonest if I said it didn't bother me at times. But I was never in it for adulation, celebrity, or pats on the back. Both Rodney Burke and I are products of the revolutionary 60's and felt it was our responsibility to give back to the community that nurtured and formed who we are. Rodney is originally from St. Louis and I'm from East St. Louis but we both grew up black in America. What good is it to be in a position to do something and then do nothing. We saw the tremendous amount of resources that were going to other communities and were willing to fight for our community despite any negative pushback we got from our community. But it can be a lonely place. What you speak to in your question is a much greater question for the Steppers' Community and for the Black Community at large. We need to be able to identify those people, businesses, and institutions that support our interests and nurture and support them. There would probably be a lot more people of color in the corporate arena [who would be] willing to bet on black folks if we showed we really had their back. The negativity is a sad commentary on the state of affairs in the community

TP: Any final comments?

GW: My final thoughts revolve around a lot of the tensions that I’m hearing and feeling between the different generations of Steppers. Our collective appreciation of our history, art, and culture, as well as the development and maintenance of institutions leaves a lot to be desired. This generational conflict is symbolic of the problem. All sides bare some responsibility for the community having come to this place. On one hand, the ‘new steppers’ have every right to self-expression that reflects the times in which they live. They should not be disrespected, disregarded, or devalued in anyway. But they should not be allowed to do the same to those who came before them. I sense a ‘lowering of the bar’ if you will when it comes to the traditions of the steppin’ community. This new generation has decided to be a part of something that was there before they came. The music, way of dressing, the ways in which the community respects and interacts with each other are the very things that attracted this new generation and will hopefully attract generations to come. There is a lot to be learned from those who have come before you and that knowledge and wisdom deserves respect. The standards and especially the music should not be changed to cater to the new. I can groove to Maze or the Whispers, even Jill Scott or Dwele even when I’m not dancing. Sadly, I can’t say the same these days, except when I go to some of the ‘old school’ sets at the Fifty.

The Waltz is the Waltz all over the world and has been the same for generation after generation. Likewise, with Latin Dance, the Salsa is the Salsa. Steppin’ is our Waltz, our Salsa. This is my hope for this wonderful expression of Black Chicago Dance, to be able to go anywhere in this country and be able to get my Step on without trying to figure out whether it’s 6 count, 8 count or 24 count. I hope this trend that I perceive to be unhealthy, is soon resolved because if Steppin continues to change at the current rate, it will very soon no longer be Steppin’ but something else entirely. This is not a new fight and yes this new generation will one day grow old and have the same challenge. I hope the coming Stepper’s Conventions take up this issue and a healthy, respectful, and productive conversation is undertaken. Thanks for the platform.

TP: Thank you Graelin for this very enlightening interview. I’m am honored that you chose Chistepper.com as a platform to share this compelling story. I truly hope that the steppers community will draw as much from your words as I did.

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